Two Figures (red) and Two Figures (green) in Different Environments (Food) 1990
Vinyl Paint, Acrylic, Colour Photographs 85.75 x 106.75 inches © John Baldessari Courtesy of Baldessari Studio
From John Baldessari: Pure Beauty at the Tate Modern (October 13, 2009 - January 10, 2010)
The retrospective of artist John Baldessari at the Tate Modern in London, "Pure Beauty" opened during Frieze week on October 13. The show, on view through January 10, 2010, is a definite must see with beautiful moments of humor and cleverness. The last work in the show is a treat for visitors, putting them directly inside the work.
On Thursday, October 15, the day after the opening of the Tate show, the Frieze Art Fair, held a conversation betweenBaldessari and Matthew Higgs (artist and director of White Columns, New York) as part of the Frieze Talks series. Higgs posed questions to Baldessari taken from Frieze's readers and from the audience. Here are a few highlights from that talk.
To listen to the full audio on the Frieze Art Fair's website click HERE.
MATTHEW HIGGS: The first question is from Phil, is it better to ask a question or to answer it?
JOHN BALDESSARI: I think the obvious answer is that it’s better to ask a question. I think my modus operandi for me from the very start was to try something out. I’ve always called that period of my work “What would happen if I did this? What would happen if I did that?” To set up that kind of questions to see what would happen, having some parameters that it wouldn’t be so free ranging that anything would be okay but the idea that something might happen but might not happen. In particularly there was a series in which I was throwing rubber balls up in the air and then trying to capture them in the frame of a 35 mm camera. The idea would be that in 36 trials would something happen that I propose to happen. One of them was could I get an equilateral triangle? It sounds not too likely but I actually did get quite close. And it’s a lot of fun. That’s what kids do, and I think kids do the best art because they’re not thinking about if they’re doing art. What would I happen if I did this? Would it piss off my mom? Or if it doesn’t do I need to up the ante? [laughs].
MH: Thank you Phil. The next question is from Angus and it’s the big one: What is art?
JB: Well the classic answer for a lot of artists comes from Donald Judd, it’s anything the artist says is art is art. I subscribe to that but I also have to add that the next job is convincing others of your idea that that’s art. And then we are talking about consensus, the more people you can get to believe in your belief the more likely that it will be thought of as art out there. And I’ve also said that for me art and artists are a convincing lie. You have to convince someone about something they are not ready to be convinced about. If they’re already convinced about something it’s not so interesting.
MH: The next question comes from Claudia. What’s the average day like in the Baldessari studio?
JB: Pretty boring [laughter]. My old friend once said John’s a 9-5 artist and he’s right. I have a pretty predictable day. I get up pretty early, around 5 or so and I like to make breakfast and read papers and magazines and then I try to keep in shape so I work out from 9-10:30 and then I get to my studio and work until about 6 then try to avoid social obligations [laughter]. Then Netflix, I watch movies a lot, read books. Then I go to bed around, I’m embarrassed to say, 9 o’clock [laughs]. And that’s pretty boring, that’s my day.
God Nose, 1965 Oil on Canvas 68 x 57 inches © John Baldessari, Private Collection.
MH: Question from the audience – the question is from Alejandro. John, how is your creative process been effected given the success of your career?
JB: I think I’ve been at it long enough that it doesn’t affect me lately. It’s nice, of course, it’s great to be recognized. I don’t want to sound better than anybody else but when I got into art there wasn’t any money, that’s just the way it was. And then somehow I over the years developed the attitude of not paying too much attention to press clippings, good or bad. When I could afford an assistant, I would have the assistant read them to me – maybe read the good parts or the bad parts. It’s hard. There is one film made about me that I haven’t been able to look at. And there is another one I look at through my fingers. So I’m able to disassociate myself.
MH: The next question is from Dave. I know that you wrote or had other’s write, “I will not make anymore boring art.” What happens when art gets boring?
JB: That’s a good question and my old friend Sol LeWitt, and its always stuck in my head, he said, “Boredom is interesting when you work through it.” And I think life is like that. I don’t mind being boring, that’s part of life, but I think art shouldn’t bore me. I don’t like to be bored looking at things and I get bored easily. That [phrase] was written as a note for myself and then the Halifax College of Art in Nova Scotia, a sister school of Cal Arts, asked me to do a show up there but of course they had no money for me to go up there. So I remembered that phrase in my notebook so I said well students, maybe as punishment for misdeeds, have them write on the gallery wall I will not make anymore boring art as many times as they wanted to afflict themselves with that punishment and I thought it would just be blank walls and the whole gallery was filled and I thought, boy, they’ve got a problem up there [laughter].
MH: Canadians. The next question is from Andre, Do you regret burning most of your early paintings? Were they the boring art you promised never to make?
JB: To the first question, no, not at all. Because my peers, the idea was then abstract expressionism, I was in the second generation and the whole idea was in the doing, in the making of the painting and that was the experience. I learned a lot making those paintings, I can remember them, I have photographic records. Why did I have to own them? It was just stuff. There was no art market, the only people that had my paintings were my friends, so I have no regrets at all about that. The second were they the boring art? No.
MH: Were you ever asked to act in a Hollywood movie?
JB: Yeah, once. Another I really kind of liked but I was in Europe and couldn’t do it but it was to be in a TV perfume ad and I was going to be on the stand in a court room and there were going to be these two women fighting over me. What’s not to like?
MH: The next question is from Caroline, What is beautiful to you?
JB: I think it can’t be conventional beauty. It has to be something I haven’t seen before and causes a reaction in me. One will be, I wish I’d done that, and the other one is more troublesome, and it hasn’t happened too often, you think either that artists is right and I’m wrong, or if he’s right I’d better change what I’m doing.
MH: The next question is if you weren’t an artist what would you be?
JB: Really frustrated. You know I always admired people that got of school and went directly into what they do in life. I backed up into what I do in life, its just trial and error and trial an error. I don’t know what I would do. I have no idea.
Bloody Sundae 1987 Black and white photographs, vinyl paint 93 x 65.75 inches © John Baldessari, Courtesy of Baldessari Studio Private Collection.
Courtesy of Frieze Art Fair 2009 www.frieze.com
